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Post by mrjack on Apr 8, 2017 1:26:41 GMT
So I've been working in Max and Zbrush lately and I've been working on my own heads/hair meshes to create a custom Shep that is exactly how I want him or her to look and have the same (or higher) level of detail as Ash and Kaidan.
I've finished the base sculpts but before I go any further with texturing, I need to know just how far I can make them unique.
The first issue is, I want the new heads to use the same materials as Ashley and Kaidan so I can use a 3 channel spec map and dictate the colour of their skin with the diffuse map instead of tinting.
So to start with, I cloned Kaidan's head mesh, materials and textures in BIOG_HMM_HED_PROMorph.pcc and renamed everything. I also plan to clone the the basic human lash materials so I can use custom lashes.
So far so good but that's just one PCC and Shep's head mesh is in many different ones. I think I've figured out how to tell the game to use the new mesh instead of the old one so that's fine I think but my problem is I don't quite understand how to make the mesh in the other PCCs use the new materials because they are not there but seem to be referenced from the original BIOG_HMM_HED_PROMorph.pcc. I think it's listed in imports but I don't understand how that works.
The second issue I'm having is that ideally, I'd like to edit the (cloned) hair material so that it uses a normal map and gets it's colour from the diffuse map instead of using the tinting system so I can use different colour strands but I don't know if this is possible. I'd also like to do that with the eye materials.
And after all that is done, I have no idea how to distribute the mod because PPC replacers would mess up users games and I don't really know how to make DLC mods.
If I'm asking for the moon, I'll understand and go back to just a basic mesh and texture replacements but the benefit of creating a Shep that's truly unique is that other modders can just make mesh and texture changes to make their own custom Shep without relying on the limits of the CC.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
J
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Post by giftfish on Apr 8, 2017 14:42:07 GMT
Going to move this into mesh/textures since it's most relevant to that content.
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Post by giftfish on Apr 8, 2017 15:22:48 GMT
So I've been working in Max and Zbrush lately and I've been working on my own heads/hair meshes to create a custom Shep that is exactly how I want him or her to look and have the same (or higher) level of detail as Ash and Kaidan. One thing I'm not clear about and that's important: Would these replace the default Jane/John (which are high rez, just like Ash/Kaidan) or would these be entirely new? If they aren't replacements, then it sounds like you'd need to modify the Character Creator to even be able to access them. They won't just appear there by default. So to start with, I cloned Kaidan's head mesh, materials and textures in BIOG_HMM_HED_PROMorph.pcc and renamed everything. I also plan to clone the the basic human lash materials so I can use custom lashes. So far so good but that's just one PCC and Shep's head mesh is in many different ones. I think I've figured out how to tell the game to use the new mesh instead of the old one so that's fine I think but my problem is I don't quite understand how to make the mesh in the other PCCs use the new materials because they are not there but seem to be referenced from the original BIOG_HMM_HED_PROMorph.pcc. I think it's listed in imports but I don't understand how that works. You can easily clone anything necessary across files and re-link up as necessary. Materials for the mesh are referenced in Meshplorer. If you need to reference new materials, then pull them into the file. Note that you'll likely need to change the MIC references in the stunt actor series (PackEd) to point to the new materials, as well. The second issue I'm having is that ideally, I'd like to edit the (cloned) hair material so that it uses a normal map and gets it's colour from the diffuse map instead of using the tinting system so I can use different colour strands but I don't know if this is possible. I'd also like to do that with the eye materials. If you've cloned all of Kaidan's objects, these can't use the normal, custom Shep tinting system; the objects aren't built to. The hair will appear as it does on the diffuse. And after all that is done, I have no idea how to distribute the mod because PPC replacers would mess up users games and I don't really know how to make DLC mods. PCC replacers don't mess up games. Folks just need to back up their PCCs prior to modding; this is good practice regardless of the game being modded. The DLC mod tutorial for ME2 is on the wiki. The ME3 one will be there soon. ---- I think there's either a problem with the idea you are conveying, or my understanding. If you're looking to create a new, non-customizable Shep that either functions as OR serves as a replacement for John Shepard (Sheploo), then: 1. Why not work off of his game objects? It would likely save a bit of work, especially if you're going to do a replace. 2. Neither Sheploo nor Kaidan are built use the game's hair/skin/etc tinting system. All colors are taken from the diffuse. Why are you assuming your model will not do this? 3. As stated, the CC is an entirely different thing. Nothing you do will be selectable in the CC unless you put it there. Are you adding or replacing? if you are replacing, then you can also simply replace the mesh in the files and not add a new one. |
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Post by mrjack on Apr 8, 2017 17:46:55 GMT
One thing I'm not clear about and that's important: Would these replace the default Jane/John (which are high rez, just like Ash/Kaidan) or would these be entirely new? If they aren't replacements, then it sounds like you'd need to modify the Character Creator to even be able to access them. They won't just appear there by default. I'm replacing the default Sheploo and femshep. The way I'm going about it is to create new heads and then make the game use these heads instead of the originals. WHen I talked about customization for other modders I meant if someone liked my head/hair as a base but wanted to change the skin colour or hair colour they could just alter the textures instead of digging around in the PCC file. You can easily clone anything necessary across files and re-link up as necessary. Materials for the mesh are referenced in Meshplorer. If you need to reference new materials, then pull them into the file. Note that you'll likely need to change the MIC references in the stunt actor series (PackEd) to point to the new materials, as well. I thought this was possible but I don't really know how to do it which is why I'm here; to see if it was and then maybe get some guidance. One thing I'm not clear about and that's important: Would these replace the default Jane/John (which are high rez, just like Ash/Kaidan) or would these be entirely new? If they aren't replacements, then it sounds like you'd need to modify the Character Creator to even be able to access them. They won't just appear there by default. I didn't clone Kaidan's hair because he doesn't use a hair mesh in 3. It's part of his head mesh and takes its colour from the scalp diffuse. Every hair in the game except his and the Illusive Man (also part of his head mesh) uses the tinting system. I want to be able to edit materials in ME3Explorer beyond just choosing what textures they look for. At the moment the hair material doesn't look for a normal map at all and uses the tinting system to colour the diffuse (which is green). I don't know if it's possible to make edits to materials like this, which is why I'm asking. I'm going to reply within your quote because this multi-quoting is getting out of hand... PCC replacers don't mess up games. Folks just need to back up their PCCs prior to modding; this is good practice regardless of the game being modded. I meant that if people already have modded or replaced these PCCs, they would have to reapply their mods again. Some such as the controller mod wouldn't be compatible I don't think because we both need to edit the BioP_Char.pccThe DLC mod tutorial for ME2 is on the wiki. The ME3 one will be there soon. That's probably why I couldn't find it. I'll check that out.---- I think there's either a problem with the idea you are conveying, or my understanding. If you're looking to create a new, non-customizable Shep that either functions as OR serves as a replacement for John Shepard (Sheploo), then: 1. Why not work off of his game objects? It would likely save a bit of work, especially if you're going to do a replace. Because Sheploo's face is tinted and I want the colour I paint to show up in game.
2. Neither Sheploo nor Kaidan are built use the game's hair/skin/etc tinting system. All colors are taken from the diffuse. Why are you assuming your model will not do this? Because this is not true. Sheploo's face diffuse is like the character creator diffuse maps. It's basically white and is tinted using the tinting system and the specular is contained on the alpha channel instead of being a separate file which allows for control over things like ambient occlusion. I want to work this way so the models look as good as possible. You are correct about Kaidan skin but not about his eyes which also use the tinting system.3. As stated, the CC is an entirely different thing. Nothing you do will be selectable in the CC unless you put it there. Are you adding or replacing? if you are replacing, then you can also simply replace the mesh in the files and not add a new one. Sorry if I didn't explain it properly but this has nothing to do with CC. I want to replace the default Shepards but I want to have complete control over the colours and not rely on the tinting system if possible and also want to add a normal map to the hair material. None of these things can be done with simple mesh and texture replacements.I hope you understand what I'm trying to do. I really am a beginner when it comes to package editor and I tried to figure out what I could on my own but I've hit a road block so I came here for help. |
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Post by giftfish on Apr 9, 2017 1:05:59 GMT
I think we're talking about slightly different things.
Sheploo is not customizable within the CC. When you choose that particular version of the character, you cannot change his skin color. This is what I mean when I say "not tintable". What you see in the CC is what you get, in other words. If you are saying that the game applies some type of additional color over the diffuse that isn't controlled by the player, that I don't know about specifically, though it's surprising.
So, despite changing the default Shepard you don't want that change to show up in the CC? The only way to show the change there is to mod BioP_Char.pcc.
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Post by mrjack on Apr 9, 2017 8:08:46 GMT
I think we're talking about slightly different things. Sheploo is not customizable within the CC. When you choose that particular version of the character, you cannot change his skin color. This is what I mean when I say "not tintable". What you see in the CC is what you get, in other words. If you are saying that the game applies some type of additional color over the diffuse that isn't controlled by the player, that I don't know about specifically, though it's surprising. So, despite changing the default Shepard you don't want that change to show up in the CC? The only way to show the change there is to mod BioP_Char.pcc. Well yes, Sheploo's new head will show when you decide between going with the default face or a custom Shep but that's as far as the CC is involved. I'm not talking about customizing the default head in game. All characters in the game use the tinting system to some degree (behind the scenes) and they all have a skin colour that's applied over exposed skin in clothes and armour such as Kaidan's non-combat uniform or Ashley's party dress but their head meshes (and romance bodies) don't use that system and take the colour directly from the diffuse which is what I want for my version of Shep's head. |
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Post by giftfish on Apr 9, 2017 15:11:58 GMT
Well yes, Sheploo's new head will show when you decide between going with the default face or a custom Shep but that's as far as the CC is involved. I'm not talking about customizing the default head in game. And in order to make that new head show _at all_ in the CC, that means you must edit BioP_Char. There is no other option. I'm just making sure you understand that that. You've indicated you don't want to mod that file. I'm saying, it's unavoidable. All characters in the game use the tinting system to some degree (behind the scenes) and they all have a skin colour that's applied over exposed skin in clothes and armour such as Kaidan's non-combat uniform or Ashley's party dress but their head meshes (and romance bodies) don't use that system and take the colour directly from the diffuse which is what I want for my version of Shep's head. I understand very, very well how this works "behind the scenes". Probably more so than anyone else here short of Kinkojiro, which is why I'm trying to understand your explanation enough to provide an accurate response. I've added new NPCs and edited the appearance of existing NPCs -- including skintone, hair, and a variety of other appearance-related properties; their referenced textures; and more. I've never touched Shepard, however, which is why I was surprised default Shep--who isn't a normal NPC and doesn't have skincolor that's changeable by the player--would still have a skincolor property that amends his textures. If all you want to do is remove the skintone unreal property, just strip it out of the export. It MAY also work to set the alpha to "0", but that's usually sketchy. You'll have to take a look at all 3 stunt actor levels, however, to ensure you catch all the MaterialInstanceConstants that are affecting Shepard. Use tree view in PackEd to help with this. Locate the package that holds the mesh, then follow the export and metadata references. The biggest problem I see with how you've done this, is you want a replacer for default Shep, but you've effectively created a new one, through cloning and renaming Kaidan's objects. That means you have to link those into default Shep's stuntactor series. It also means that any file that may use some of the exports in that BIOG file as imports, also needs to be re-pointed. In addition, you will have to replicate the work via cloning and relinking, into any other file in which Shep's stuntactor appears. There's no way around that. --- As far as changing the material references in Meshplorer, they're immediately listed on the right when you view any mesh in Meshplorer, so I'm not sure what other guidance you need there. |
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Post by mrjack on Apr 9, 2017 16:08:08 GMT
I've obviously made a bad first impression and I apologise for that but I think it's best I put a pin in the project until I can figure it out.
No hard feelings.
J
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Post by giftfish on Apr 9, 2017 20:39:06 GMT
I've obviously made a bad first impression and I apologise for that but I think it's best I put a pin in the project until I can figure it out. Nope, not at all. No apologies are necessary; I'm not offended. I was trying to be clear that I do indeed have an understanding about what you're trying to do (which is why I was trying to help). However, what you're doing is complicated, and since you don't fully understand everything behind it, it can be hard to convey all the details accurately. Your posts might make complete sense to you, but they may not to others who are reading them. This is where my additional questions come in. I can't help unless I'm sure what you're asking  |
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Post by mrjack on Apr 9, 2017 21:49:18 GMT
I've obviously made a bad first impression and I apologise for that but I think it's best I put a pin in the project until I can figure it out. Nope, not at all. No apologies are necessary; I'm not offended. I was trying to be clear that I do indeed have an understanding about what you're trying to do (which is why I was trying to help). However, what you're doing is complicated, and since you don't fully understand everything behind it, it can be hard to convey all the details accurately. Your posts might make complete sense to you, but they may not to others who are reading them. This is where my additional questions come in. I can't help unless I'm sure what you're asking OK, we can try again if you still willing I'm going to take some screens shots of package editor to explain what I'm trying to do and then come back. |
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sil
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Post by sil on Apr 9, 2017 22:05:19 GMT
Whatever you're working on, it'll be difficult, thats the nature of ME3 modding. But eventually it'll just click, so keep your spirits up mrjack! It took me months to get my spectre terminal messages working right, but once they did, it was an awesome feeling to get one done. I look forward to seeing your work |
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Post by mrjack on Apr 12, 2017 1:33:53 GMT
Sorry about the delay, real life and all that. OK so first things first. My original idea of creating basically a a whole new character's worth of assets and pointing the Shepard character to those files turned out to be a massive headache. I thought it would be more "elegant" than piecemealing the character together but I see now that it's easier just to clone the materials and textures and point all of Shepards meshes to the new materials. I get what you were saying @gitfish now so thanks for that That's the first problem semi-solved except I don't know how to import these new materials into another PCC so I can point the Shepard mesh at them in Meshplorer. Shepard's head shows up in a lot of PCCs but Kaidans materials aren't there to clone. Is there a guide somewhere for this? |
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Post by giftfish on Apr 13, 2017 14:08:06 GMT
That's the first problem semi-solved except I don't know how to import these new materials into another PCC so I can point the Shepard mesh at them in Meshplorer. Shepard's head shows up in a lot of PCCs but Kaidans materials aren't there to clone. Is there a guide somewhere for this? Nope, no guide. (Yet.) The article for PackEd hasn't been written on the wiki yet. Cloning across PCCs is very, very easy in PackEd. 1. Open two instances of the tool. 2. Put both in Tree View. 3. Locate the objects to clone. 4. Select one object/package tree at a time and drag it to the parent package in the other file's tree view. Your goal is to keep the same structure in both files. So, if the same package exists in both files, you just drag the new object to that package. If the same package doesn't exist, then you can pull the entire package from the source file, or you can just clone any package in the destination file and rename it. Once you've cloned exports in, relink their metadata by referencing the same objects in the source file. If there are missing imports and you can't create the proper link, then you clone those from the source PCC in the same way. FYI, if you clone any packages, this will change their index in the metadata to "1". Change this back to "0". Failing to do so can cause problems. Last step is to update all the Unreal properties and any binary associated with the exports. |
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