[RELEASED] Better Dreams

[sansuni]

As much as I love the idea itself, those video's above seem a bit weird to me. (I can't even think up a word for it, foggy comes to mind but no.. I wish to say bleed in effect used too much, but I don't think thats correct either.)

First one: Using ME1 there for this dream is a brilliant idea (ME1 for the first dream, ME2 for the second dream and so on) but it cuts off the iconic music ME1 had and that should be considered a major crime. Also, ME1 dream doesn't have any Prothean beacon related stuff in it, so that no good. (Considering that was where ME1 actually started)

Second one: First one has lots of dialogue from ME1 spread around, so I expected to hear at least something from ME2, but there is absolutely nothing. I was honestly expecting some phrases like "Assuming direct control" and at least something from the Illusive Man to make it into the second dream sequence, so that was mildly disappointing.

Even though I say all that, it is still 200% better than the original. (which was bullshit to be honest) So, keep up the good work.

[giftfish]

sansuni -- I think you need to watch both dreams again, b/c everything you specifically commented on is flat out wrong.

1. The music in the ME1 dream isn't cut off. It's one version of Sovereign's theme and is a full 40s clip. It's spliced in one place in the middle to make a minor adjustment to overall length but that's it. The end is most certainly not cut off, and concludes as dictated by the composer.

2. Both dreams feature the ME1 prothean beacon vision in full -- video and audio. It's set up as an overlay track that spans the full length of the dream. In fact, the length of the dream is dictated by this content more than any other. It will also form the basis of dream 3. Both dreams also feature whatever prothean ruins that appeared in each game.

3. The first dream does not have "lots" of dialogue from ME1 dream around. The *only* dialogue in fact is the recording from the soldier on Eden Prime at the very beginning. There is no other dialogue at all. ME2 did not have a logical counterpart to this, and so lacks any dialogue. The ME1 dream does have a few sound effects (thorian, Saren at beacon, Virmire bomb) that are lacking in ME2. This is b/c the ME2 Collector theme already keeps things very "busy" audio-wise. Adding additional audio -- even sound effects -- became too lost and muddy in the existing audio.

[sansuni]

I think I didn't explain what I meant well enough, my fault really. Sorry about that.

1. I didn't mean it as in, "it cuts off and it ends with a different music" or "it cuts off and the ending part of the music isn't there", I meant it as it plays the beginning of the music and after some strange noises, it plays the end of it. If I have to point it out, it starts playing it, then you can hear "they came out of nowhere we need evac" and than after that all you can hear is some strange noises like scratching and music is muffled so much that you can't hear it anymore and then near the ending it starts playing again.

2. But I didn't mean the prothean beacon vision, I was talking about the actual prothean beacon. (this scene to be exact: i.ytimg.com/vi/kyIa_q8i7lI/maxresdefault.jpg ) It should be a horrifying moment for Shepard, considering it was the moment he/she learned about the reapers. But it isn't really important, it was just a suggestion.

3. I didn't mean it that way. I was saying that in comparison. (I wrote something while meaning something else, totally my fault, honestly) Where the second one didn't have any dialogue from ME2 at all. Actually, first one should have had "we are the harbingers of your destruction" line. (and ME2 does have a counterpart for that)

Overall, like I have said, it is 200% better than the original and it makes lots of sense. These are just my personal opinions.

[giftfish]

sansuni -- Not a problem, but your perception still isn't accurate.

1. The music is there the entire time. The volume varies, but it is always there. There are 3 tracks of audio present outside of the sound effects.

2. The moment from your screenshot cannot be shown in the dream, as Shepard's gender varies. This is why none of the dreams show Shepard at all, and very few squadmates. Dreams need to work for all players and playthroughs.

3. Inserting spoken lines like this is problematic, as it will overlap many clips, all of which have different content. When the eye sees one thing and the audio doesn't match, the mind gets confused. I tried similar ideas during development and ultimately decided against it.

[sansuni]

I am not asking you to change anything, but my perception is entirely accurate.

1. "If a tree falls in the jungle and nobody has heard it, did it really fall?".. It could still be there, but since it cannot be heard by a human ear, (all I can hear after some point is gargle noises and little to no music can be heard at this point, then near the end music can be heard again) could you still say it doesn't cut off?

2. I gave that as an example. (as I couldn't find the screenshot of the exact moment I was talking about) There should be a moment where Ashley gets caught up by the beacon. But I see your point.

3. Well, you do use lots of reaper related footage, so it does kinda match with the what eye sees. (Still, it would have been much better than the straight gargle noise in the first one)

Either way, it is your mod and I stand behind what I said, these are just my opinions and your mod is awesome anyway.

[giftfish]

Feb 17, 2017 16:10:38 GMT sansuni said:

I am not asking you to change anything, but my perception is entirely accurate.

1. "If a tree falls in the jungle and nobody has heard it, did it really fall?".. It could still be there, but since it cannot be heard by a human ear, (all I can hear after some point is gargle noises and little to no music can be heard at this point, then near the end music can be heard again) could you still say it doesn't cut off?

I can hear it just fine; not sure why you cannot. Could be your headphones, computer speakers, sound card, your ear, or a combination of all. I've also had nobody else make this comment about not being able to hear the music through any segment of the video.

My qualm isn't with your opinion, it's with how you present your opinion: you state it as fact. If you simply said that you would have preferred some alternations to audio mixing where the music was more noticeable in the middle sections, then that's something else entirely. I'm trying to ensure that other readers of this thread don't get the wrong impression by your words, which is why I've "corrected" you. You are certainly allowed to your opinion, and the new dreams won't be for everyone. I'm entirely comfortable with that.

Feb 17, 2017 16:10:38 GMT sansuni said:

2. I gave that as an example. (as I couldn't find the screenshot of the exact moment I was talking about) There should be a moment where Ashley gets caught up by the beacon. But I see your point.

And, when Shepard is female, it's Kaidan who gets caught by the beacon, not Ashley. I've never had Ashley caught by the beam, as I never play BroShep. So, again, there's plot variation there, and one of the premises of the dreams is that they can only show moments without plot variation.

[sansuni]

Well, it is a fact for me. Perhaps there is something wrong with my headphones. Sorry, I honestly didn't mean it in a bad way. (after your first post, I listened to it 3 more times just to be certain. But if there is something wrong about my headphones, that would explain it.)

It is good that you corrected me then. I would hate it if they misunderstood this and thought I was meaning something I didn't. I am glad you understood.

I had a play trough as a female Shepard, just to see what changes (sadly not a lot) but I don't remember that change. (it is been a long time I guess) I thought it was always Ashley that got caught by the beacon.

Since I know it would be too time consuming to make several version of the dream sequences with conditionals and all (also considering what you plan for the third dream with a ton of conditionals) I can see why you wouldn't wish to do that. I completely understand.

Last thing though, I promise. What about adding the Virmire casualty only? Just a single conditional. It is a moment where Shepard would have nightmares about. First casualty of this whole thing.

Or I could just shut up before you start to hate my guts... That works as well.

[giftfish]

sansuni -- I don't hate your guts, lol. Asking questions is fine

I'm already going to be doing a lot of extra work for the 3rd dream that I didn't initially plan, so inserting the VC into dream #1 isn't something I'm going to to. There is yet another technical problem with that also: there are different ways the VC can die. They can die either with the bomb or with Kirrahe's squad. We get no final moment of VC, visually, at the moment of their death; we only get their reaction over radio when Shepard makes the choice. The dream already shows the geth arriving at the bomb site and the Normandy GTFOing as the bomb detonates, those two things actually are the *best* visual reference to the VC we have.

Likewise, there are no squad deaths shown on the ME2 suicide mission. These would also be pivotal moments for Shepard, and they are missing. The fact that they are missing is notable. However, the work to include a version of the dream with any/all combinations of the potential deaths of 12 squadmates is prohibitive, therefore none are included.

Finally, remember that not everyone started the series with ME1. ME1 was a new franchise released only for XBOX back in 2007, and ported to PC a year later. Many folks didn't step into the series until ME2. For those folks the VC's death may not hold the same significance it does for you, and some indeed RP it this way in ME3, choosing convo options that shy away from that line of story. My feeling is that if I can't show any actual squadmate deaths from ME2, then I should treat ME1 the same and also not show any.

[theqwertiest]

giftfish : Love the idea behind the mod and it's implementation!

I have a few suggestion though:
1. Make "fade to white" effect slower and more pronounced (something like >>this<<). It's a very popular cue indicating the end of a dream that is often used in both movies and games.
2. Change the music to something more suitable for nightmares (in cinematic sense obviously, realistically you might even have >>this<< or >>this<< in your nightmares, but we don't really want to torture player, or do we?). Usually the music in nightmares is quite in the beginning (maybe even peaceful), then slowly builds up right to the climax in the end of the dream (usually becomes more violent and aggressive in this part as to "wake up the listener"). Example musics: >>first<< (nightmare ending example), >>second<< (build-up example), and a perfect example of a nightmare scene (pay attention to music in the background): >>example<<.

Imo, these two changes might help greatly in making a player to perceive these scenes as a dream rather then a random trailer recapping previous episodes.

[praedor]

Wow. Quite the impressive undertaking.  I had long hoped SOMEONE would manage to either make the dreams skippable or alter them, and here you are.  

[giftfish]

Just giving folks a heads up that I expect to start working on Dream #3 soonish. Probably within the next week.

I haven't had anyone toss me links to game footage of their favored LI, so still need all of those. I'm supplying a few myself -- see OP for reference

[kainprime]

Oh, good. Finally it won't feel so awkward for Shepard to have pedo dreams of chasing small children just after the sex scene.

[neph]

Mar 24, 2017 15:28:19 GMT giftfish said:

Just giving folks a heads up that I expect to start working on Dream #3 soonish. Probably within the next week.

I haven't had anyone toss me links to game footage of their favored LI, so still need all of those. I'm supplying a few myself -- see OP for reference

Smack me, because I completely forgot. Let me do this NOW before I forget again.

Okay, this is the Kaidan romance intro for the actual Romance scene. The lock-in doesn't have any good footage that doesn't include Shepard. Likewise, the Traynor romance scene doesn't include any footage that doesn't include Shepard, but I believe the lock-in does. However, I've not completed that PT yet. I'm getting close to that point, thankfully, and should be hitting that scene in the next day or so, so I'll make sure you have it. What I don't have is software capable of clipping these videos (at least, not installed, and my disks for the good software are in storage)     and you said you needed uncompressed, so I didn't run this through Handbrake. I'd suggest the wine bottle moments, for Kaidan. It seems to be right up there with the steak sandwich thing for people that actually ENJOY his romance (I turned my volume down so I didn't have to listen to it, the things I do for you!). 

Kaidan Romance

I apologize for the size of the damn thing. If it can be run through handbrake before sending to you, then let me know, and I'll do that and replace this with it.

<3

[whodatninja]

This is a cool idea for a mod! Looking forward to it.

[giftfish]

Dream #3 will be starting soon

I suck at implementing new streaming states. Blarg.