Post by giftfish on Jan 5, 2017 19:32:09 GMT
Below is a port of all content from the old forum, reformatted for better readability.
Sir | Plot Editor
Postby giftfish » 03 Sep 2016, 10:35
And, one more new dev thread
This tool is a very, very big deal. It cannot be emphasized enough. Capabilities of content modding are entirely dependent upon the ability to add/edit conditionals and state transitions. The goal here is to port TankMaster's existing tools to the toolset, finish them, fix bugs, and have a single Plot Editor for all 3 games. It should be noted that for ME1 and ME2, conditionals are controlled by PCCs and not a CND, and therefore, should be able to be included in this same editor.
GitHub Issue.
Postby SirCxyrtyx » 07 Sep 2016, 21:51
This is going to be a tricky one. I've cloned Tankmaster's ME3 modding tools github repository and have spent the past couple of days just deleting stuff in it to try and trim it down to just the Natives Editor and Coalesced Editor. He's using a framework I'm unfamiliar with (Caliburn Micro), as well as a ton of his own code for a framework he appears to have been working on (Gammtek Conduit?). So it's going to take a bit before I can even understand what is going on with this code, let alone integrate it with the toolset.
Separately, I really wouldn't hold out too much hope on getting anything like this working for ME2 or ME1. It looks like this stuff is controlled through Unreal script for those games, which means someone would need to do whatever SDK generation/decompilation voodoo WV did for ME3 to make any headway.
Postby giftfish » 08 Sep 2016, 07:43
This is... interesting. Do you mean the plot/codex/quest maps or the conditionals? Or both? I'm aware the conditionals system is completely different for ME1/2.
TankMaster actually indicated in his research thread a while back that he already knew how plot stuff for ME2 worked. As in, he made statements comparing the ME2 "conventions" regarding some of the data for ME3. I don't remember him elaborating beyond that, but it was probably two years ago that this point. Maybe there's some surprises for us in his code...
Sorry to hear it's being such a pain. I hope we can figure out ME1 and ME2, though, otherwise, we'll never be able to make story mods for it like ME3. Boooo
Postby Kinkojiro » 11 Sep 2016, 03:45
I am pretty busy at the moment but I will try to give you my notes on this. I am pretty sure that ME1/2 state events, quests maps, codex maps are identical to ME3. Sure they are binary code, but they are not unrealscript. I have successfully hex edited them and can give you the details on how they work. If the natives editor code is too complex it maybe easier to rebuild it from scratch.
Conditionals are the real prize however and those look like unrealscript in ME1/2.
Postby giftfish » 11 Sep 2016, 08:11
@kinko -- Thanks for bringing this up.
I've been able to pinpoint some things, too, researching ME2 plots for ThaneMOD. The "order" of ME2 state transition fields seems to be similar to how it exists in TankMaster's current plot editor, but there's definitely something I'm missing. Sometimes things are where I expect them; other times they aren't. It might have to do with if a transition contains more than one event; I'm not sure. At any rate, please do post research when you have time. If there's anything I can add (doubtful), I'll do so.
Freaking bioautoconditionals. Those really are a black hole. I've tried to make sense of those with no luck at all.
END
Sir | Plot Editor
Postby giftfish » 03 Sep 2016, 10:35
And, one more new dev thread
This tool is a very, very big deal. It cannot be emphasized enough. Capabilities of content modding are entirely dependent upon the ability to add/edit conditionals and state transitions. The goal here is to port TankMaster's existing tools to the toolset, finish them, fix bugs, and have a single Plot Editor for all 3 games. It should be noted that for ME1 and ME2, conditionals are controlled by PCCs and not a CND, and therefore, should be able to be included in this same editor.
GitHub Issue.
Postby SirCxyrtyx » 07 Sep 2016, 21:51
This is going to be a tricky one. I've cloned Tankmaster's ME3 modding tools github repository and have spent the past couple of days just deleting stuff in it to try and trim it down to just the Natives Editor and Coalesced Editor. He's using a framework I'm unfamiliar with (Caliburn Micro), as well as a ton of his own code for a framework he appears to have been working on (Gammtek Conduit?). So it's going to take a bit before I can even understand what is going on with this code, let alone integrate it with the toolset.
Separately, I really wouldn't hold out too much hope on getting anything like this working for ME2 or ME1. It looks like this stuff is controlled through Unreal script for those games, which means someone would need to do whatever SDK generation/decompilation voodoo WV did for ME3 to make any headway.
Postby giftfish » 08 Sep 2016, 07:43
SirCxyrtyx wrote:
Separately, I really wouldn't hold out too much hope on getting anything like this working for ME2 or ME1. It looks like this stuff is controlled through Unreal script for those games, which means someone would need to do whatever SDK generation/decompilation voodoo WV did for ME3 to make any headway.
Separately, I really wouldn't hold out too much hope on getting anything like this working for ME2 or ME1. It looks like this stuff is controlled through Unreal script for those games, which means someone would need to do whatever SDK generation/decompilation voodoo WV did for ME3 to make any headway.
This is... interesting. Do you mean the plot/codex/quest maps or the conditionals? Or both? I'm aware the conditionals system is completely different for ME1/2.
TankMaster actually indicated in his research thread a while back that he already knew how plot stuff for ME2 worked. As in, he made statements comparing the ME2 "conventions" regarding some of the data for ME3. I don't remember him elaborating beyond that, but it was probably two years ago that this point. Maybe there's some surprises for us in his code...
Sorry to hear it's being such a pain. I hope we can figure out ME1 and ME2, though, otherwise, we'll never be able to make story mods for it like ME3. Boooo
Postby Kinkojiro » 11 Sep 2016, 03:45
SirCxyrtyx wrote:
Separately, I really wouldn't hold out too much hope on getting anything like this working for ME2 or ME1. It looks like this stuff is controlled through Unreal script for those games, which means someone would need to do whatever SDK generation/decompilation voodoo WV did for ME3 to make any headway.
Separately, I really wouldn't hold out too much hope on getting anything like this working for ME2 or ME1. It looks like this stuff is controlled through Unreal script for those games, which means someone would need to do whatever SDK generation/decompilation voodoo WV did for ME3 to make any headway.
I am pretty busy at the moment but I will try to give you my notes on this. I am pretty sure that ME1/2 state events, quests maps, codex maps are identical to ME3. Sure they are binary code, but they are not unrealscript. I have successfully hex edited them and can give you the details on how they work. If the natives editor code is too complex it maybe easier to rebuild it from scratch.
Conditionals are the real prize however and those look like unrealscript in ME1/2.
Postby giftfish » 11 Sep 2016, 08:11
@kinko -- Thanks for bringing this up.
I've been able to pinpoint some things, too, researching ME2 plots for ThaneMOD. The "order" of ME2 state transition fields seems to be similar to how it exists in TankMaster's current plot editor, but there's definitely something I'm missing. Sometimes things are where I expect them; other times they aren't. It might have to do with if a transition contains more than one event; I'm not sure. At any rate, please do post research when you have time. If there's anything I can add (doubtful), I'll do so.
Freaking bioautoconditionals. Those really are a black hole. I've tried to make sense of those with no luck at all.
END